From Fighter Pilot to CIO: The Net Lease Strategy Most Advisors Are Missing with Matt Sandretto
I'd like to welcome everybody to a double episode today with Matthew Sandretto. Matt is the chief investment officer of Prairie Hill Holdings. We're going to release the show on both ATL Alts and Asset Backed because we're gonna spend a lot of time with Matt over the next hour and potentially in a couple of future shows talking about real estate. A very, timely conversation. I'm super excited to be working with Prairie Hill Holdings.
Andres Sandate:And, Matt, gotten to know him and the team over the last few months, and this is a very, very timely conversation. They are a new client of our firm at EnduranceX, our alts platform where we are supporting independent advisors and family offices who are seeking to find really best in class institutional quality managers that maybe just, for one reason or another, fly below the radar. And when we find those managers, one of the things that we love to do after we conduct our due diligence and get to know their investment strategy, their track record, etcetera, is we like to introduce them to the broader network of RIAs and and groups that we work with because one of the things about these firms is typically they are only small for a period of time. And once they really begin to hit their stride and more folks hear about them, particularly in the wealth channel, the, you know, the the story gets out. They they grow.
Andres Sandate:And so we're super delighted to be partnering with Prairie Hill Holdings, and I'm, you know, ecstatic to have one of the cofounders and the chief investment officer, Matt Sandretto, join me today on on the podcast. And with that, Matt, welcome to the podcast, and delighted to see you here on a Friday in mid September.
Matt Sandretto:Andres, great to be with you. Thank you.
Andres Sandate:I know that was a longer intro probably than I normally do, but one of the things that we've realized here is we, you know, we need to really double click into how we came to connect, so people understand the the context and the relationship. I believe that, you know, we, you know, we learned about you guys through a colleague of yours, Jack, who maybe was doing some outreach. Our firm has a presence in Atlanta where I'm based, but we also have our headquarters in Nashville, Tennessee. So shout out to your colleague, Jack. So I think he was the one that actually, you know, initially connected us and put us together.
Andres Sandate:I'm curious to to to dive into your team. We we'll do that here in a minute. But would you just start by telling us about yourself, telling us about your background in Prairie Hill Holdings?
Matt Sandretto:Sure. Thank you, Andres. So I'm Matt Sandretto, chief investment officer at Prairie Hill. We're a real estate fund in the net lease asset class industrial retail properties, based out of Lake Forest, Illinois, which is part of Chicago Metro. We're on the North Side of the city.
Matt Sandretto:About five to 10 investment professionals, And we've been operating for a little over five years and, you know, about a 100,000,000 in assets, and we continue to grow. You know, twenty twenty six has got some sort of difficult macro factors, going on, but our strategy is proven in in a higher rate environment. In fact, for our, entire life cycle of this of this fund, we've we've been investing throughout a a higher rate environment. So we're still excited about twenty twenty six even though, not everyone might say the same thing. For for my background, I initially was in private private investments, private equity, buying businesses.
Matt Sandretto:After I left Wharton Business School, I I set out to buy buy companies and made investments in the manufacturing segment and became an owner of industrial real estate and operated those businesses for a number of years, grew that platform through through acquisition. And, ultimately, I I wanted to exit it to focus on the real estate because Yeah.
Andres Sandate:Can I jump in real quick? Sure. One of the things about our show that you'll probably pick up on really quickly is I interrupt. But That's great. For the benefit of our audience.
Andres Sandate:Because one of the things that's, I guess, different about how we're going about sourcing and underwriting managers and and doing due diligence on managers is that the the story of the team is super critical. It's one thing to invest with a $100,000,000,000 organization that's been around for sixty or eighty years. It's another thing to invest with a firm that's got a five year history, and there's five to 10 investment professionals. Right? So we we we spend a lot of time on the people.
Andres Sandate:We spend a lot of time on the alignment. We spend a lot of time on the organizational structure and the background of the of the core team that are obviously running the business day to day because these asset management firms are a business. Right? It's not just a fund. It's not just an investment strategy.
Andres Sandate:It's a business. And we are looking for firms that really have distinctive edge when it comes to the founder the founders and the founding team and what brings what what they bring to the table that makes them unique. And so you talked a little bit about your background, but like many of our guests, right, we are a lot of us are super humble, and we speed right through the fifteen or twenty years that kinda got us to this point.
Matt Sandretto:Sure.
Andres Sandate:The backstory is really important for us. And so I wanna I wanna dig into that a little bit. Backstory for you. In reading some of the notes that you shared with me, you actually were buying businesses. Were you running a search a search fund, or were you doing doing kind of a fundless search model at at that time coming out of business school?
Matt Sandretto:That's ex exactly right. So I I pursued it independently. Okay. Didn't form a fund up front, but really down in the trenches, tactically looking for a business to Yeah. To to purchase.
Matt Sandretto:And and
Andres Sandate:What you saw in your notes was that in a lot of the transactions, there was industrial real estate that was coming along with the business or was tied to the business in some way. Is that fair?
Matt Sandretto:Exactly. So typically, in these transactions, the business and the real estate would be sold together because the founding the owner, family you know, wanted to have a disposition of of all of it.
Andres Sandate:All of it.
Matt Sandretto:And so we were, you know, from day one, having to value industrial real estate. And and I think we looked at it as how I think a lot of private equity funds do and and and that it sucks up a ton of capital. It's relatively low return. These are these are the assumptions. And Yep.
Matt Sandretto:I I I found out those assumptions turned out not to be true that the, the estimated, you know, net IRRs and private equity are they're always they're they're they're always higher, on the on the spreadsheet in the twenties. But realizing those returns, a lot of funds, if they hit, you know, low to mid teens, that's considered very successful for for private equity fund. They tend to continue to be able to raise follow on funds if they're if they're hitting those numbers.
Andres Sandate:But one one thing one thing you don't see when you look at a private equity pitch book, and we look at hundreds of funds throughout a typical year, is they don't talk about the the real estate, right, in the business. Right? They they're talking about maybe we're a consumer or a franchise focused roll up or we're a health care focused p roll up. They don't talk about the real estate. Right?
Andres Sandate:So your your insight was you saw real estate was sort of included in these deals, but did you personally just start finding the real estate to be more interesting, or was there just more value there?
Matt Sandretto:So I realized that I I was wrong. I did not I did not understand the true risk profile of private equity versus real estate and how different they actually were, and then also how you could earn close to private equity like returns in various real estate strategies with far, far less risk. And how I'd how I'd describe the risk difference is if you if you buy a business, you you own the business assets. But the economy today and what type of assets a business has are are very different. We're not talking about the, know, the nineteenth century economy of, you know, railroads, steam shovels, and book value actually meant something back then.
Matt Sandretto:Today, in some businesses, book value means something, maybe mining, equipment intensive things. But in many cases, you're buying a suite of products, services, intellectual capital, a team that brings that all together, and then positions that product in the marketplace, and and customers have a willingness to pay, for it. All those thing that is a very sensitive ecosystem that is subject to get disrupted or change
Andres Sandate:Well, yeah. We look at software.
Matt Sandretto:Time. Right?
Andres Sandate:Yeah. Look at software and and the the the they talk about the SaaSpocalypse that, right, all these private credit funds that loaded up on enterprise software because because of the recurring revenue and the sticky contracts. And I do personally think that a little bit this is overblown. However,
Matt Sandretto:you can't
Andres Sandate:deny the the customers in those funds that wanted to come out, and we're invested in private credit. Right? So my point is, and I think what you're trying to articulate, is that real estate revealed itself to you during the process of evaluating and underwriting businesses to acquire as part of your days as an independent sponsor.
Matt Sandretto:Exactly. And I think I always you know, I had the hubris of youth that I thought, okay. All this this constellation of factors that can go wrong that, you know, I can figure all these out and control for them. And the truth is that I I don't think you always can. And so, you know, real estate, there's a it's a narrower set of variables to analyze.
Matt Sandretto:They also change much more slowly because construction takes a long time, and, you know, available land is is hard to come by. And and so things move much more slowly. And when we're talking about risk, you know, just one company that's been in the news a lot, I'll just use as an example, Lululemon. Let's let's look at if you own the company, own the stock, that's you, you know, owning the business versus what if you own the real estate and you're leasing a store to, Lululemon? Like, let's look at the differences.
Matt Sandretto:Okay? The all the board squabbles and with the founder and all that, and then, you know, maybe the products aren't perceived as competitive with some of these newer, you know, athleisure brands. Alright. Stock starts going down. You you know, what do you what do you have if if that's not doing well if you own the business?
Matt Sandretto:Not much, right, if if if the brand, you know, fails. Whereas you own the real estate. Okay. Let's say they they ultimately fail and shut down. Well, if you look at the kind of class a locations that they're in, there's a there's a ton of other companies that'd be dying to lease that space.
Matt Sandretto:So your your investment is is unaffected. You know, you might have, you know, a vacancy period where, you know, you're losing the rents over a period of time. You might have to put in some tenant improvement investments to, you know, rehab the store. So it's, you know, it's not saying if you lose the tenant, it's a it's a great day. Some sometimes it is, though.
Matt Sandretto:If if you do your underwriting correctly on market rents, sometimes the vacancy actually provides upside. So it's like Yeah. The business fails, you can still win. Whereas when you're either lending money to businesses, so, you know, bonds or credit investments or buying the equity of businesses, if that business doesn't work out, there's there's nothing there. And Yeah.
Matt Sandretto:Yeah. Whereas real estate, totally different. And so I think that's think that's the misunderstood risk profile of of real estate because there are certainly risky strategies in in real estate. I don't wanna, but I think thinking real estate as an asset is risky because there's these various strategies is a common misperception.
Andres Sandate:Yeah. We're going to you know, from the from the standpoint of the the origin story with you, I mean, we we're gonna walk through, like, where you guys arrived at at Prairie Hill to identifying, you know, necessity retail and industrial and and health care and some other sectors that you found work really, really well in the, you know, the net lease approach. And we're gonna build we're gonna build into, you know, what what the actual investment strategy is. But I I wanna stop talk, you know, still about the real estate. You guys identified and and you, it sounds like, personally said there's there's something here.
Andres Sandate:Talk to us about kind of you're looking at deals to buy businesses. You're seeing the real estate. Take us through this history of, you know, Prairie Hill. I know it's not a company that started yesterday. You guys have four or five years of history.
Andres Sandate:You got a 100 plus million dollars of real estate, including a very nice recent acquisition in Auburn Hills that we're gonna talk about. But take us through through those early founding days to to deciding to actually turn this into a business.
Matt Sandretto:So one of the first this is I guess this is the third acquisition I did in in manufacturing, and it was a production plant in Chicago. And it was small industrial facility, about 25,000 square feet. So not not tiny, but but smaller. Bought the business and the real estate. And at the time, the business was growing.
Matt Sandretto:And and like I said, I thought, hey. Deploying capital into into growing the business was much higher return. So let's let's see if we can monetize the real estate. And within a year of, you know, buying the real estate, sold it, for something like I think it was, like, a 10 x equity multiple. Just absurd kind of return.
Matt Sandretto:And I I saw that the inefficiencies present in some of these markets are are very high. And as a result, you know, any you know, you have a audience that's familiar with lots of different strategies, hedge fund strategies, options, derivatives, things like that. You know, these firms, the the citadels of the world, they're always mining these these inefficiencies, which are very hard to find, obviously, in the, publicly traded market. But but they're there for the the folks that engage in that arms race of of trying to find them there. In real estate, they are they are everywhere.
Matt Sandretto:They're absolutely everywhere. For example, you know, just one that's you know, if if you know corporate tenant's expansion strategy well and you know what their real estate department's looking for nationally, Well, you can buy real estate that the seller doesn't know that, you know, that real estate's perfect for this, you know, investment grade corporate tenant. You do. You buy it at a price that reflects land and buildings, and, you know, your your leasing strategy was completed before you even bought the building. And so all of a sudden, instead of it just being land and buildings, now it's a fifteen year lease with an investment grade tenant.
Matt Sandretto:You're capitalizing that income in the valuation, and, you know, there's a big return. So that's, you know, inefficiency one zero one in this in this market. Now it's it's hard to achieve that. It takes a lot of work, but it but it's there.
Andres Sandate:Yeah. There's information There's informational advantages and informational arbitrage in the private markets, which is why we love the private markets. This isn't inside information, like, when we're talking about, you know, the the public markets, right, which we're we're a highly regulated industry. Right? So we're not even gonna go there.
Andres Sandate:But when it comes to real estate, despite AI, despite data prevalence, every industry facing all the all the changes that that they're changing from a technology perspective, real estate still remains, like you said, a business that is really based on cap rates and really based on interest rates and really based on, you know, supply and demand fundamentals. But there's so much, It's such a big asset class and there's so many niche and pockets and specializations that there that it presents a lot of opportunities in all market cycles, not not just in, say, a rising market environment or a low interest rate environment. So you gave us the background on kinda where Prairie Hill got, I guess, the concept of of of forming the business. When did you decide to say, okay. I'm gonna exit buying businesses and move into focusing on acquiring net lease real estate?
Andres Sandate:I would imagine there was sort of a gradual process, but, you know, you're you're five years in now. What what was that decision? Where where did that fall?
Matt Sandretto:Yeah. I think I I saw that COVID definitely was a big a big part of it. It the the manufacturing businesses that I I had, part was tied to government customer, and that continued to do very well during COVID. But there was a commercial division that was selling to you know, not not selling to government, and that got kinda destroyed. And, you know, I got to see firsthand just some of the disruptions and how long they can take to resolve.
Matt Sandretto:And to me, the the future, or I saw much more of of future in in the real estate side and the industrial real estate because I looked at these investments and what the most valuable part of them really was was these industrial properties. And I thought, okay. I that's that's the investment asset class that I wanna pursue because it it has a element of predictability that I saw that I didn't see in anything else that I had experienced. And and, you know, my investment journey probably started when I was, you know, a kid, and I tried to read every book I could on all the asset classes. And, you know, I was very drawn to the hedge fund strategies because I was, you know, as a math major at the University of Wisconsin, I I thought I was really smart.
Andres Sandate:Turns out And you went to Wharton. I mean so, you know, that's the that's kind of
Matt Sandretto:the yeah.
Andres Sandate:You know,
Matt Sandretto:I thought yeah. Okay. You you can do math and statistics and program things, and, you know, you can just make money in the markets easily. And and I I don't think that's true, or at least I don't think it's that's not my my talent. My talent is not trading.
Matt Sandretto:It's I I I'd say it's the hard work of kind of running the the business plans of each of these properties to to achieve the value.
Andres Sandate:Mhmm. Yeah.
Matt Sandretto:You know, taking each step incrementally doing it rather than the trading, you know, the buy low, sell high or sell high, buy low stuff. So but, yeah, the the real estate was the the one thing. You you know, in in professional sports and, there's so many areas of the world where you wanna try and figure out whether something's luck or skill. And there's in investing, unfortunately, it is never a 100% skill as much as we like to think it is. There is always this element of uncertainty.
Matt Sandretto:And to me, out of all the asset classes, real estate was the one where the the uncertainty was was minimized more so than than other asset classes. It's never totally out of the picture. It's always, it's always there, but, a lot lower, I think, than private equity and and other, strategies.
Andres Sandate:Yeah. The you know, you've you've got some great materials, which we'll share with the audience around real estate over a hundred and fifty years relative to equities and bonds and treasuries. You also have some great data around the volatility or the lack thereof on a relative basis of real estate compared to other major asset classes, which are typically held, you know, by most folks who are guided by an adviser or or or an intermediary or if they're just making their own investment decisions. You know, the the vast majority of of wealth in our country is in, you know, if if if if you're saying investable assets, even just stepping back from the word wealth. Right?
Andres Sandate:Just investable assets is in you know, it's in retirement accounts. It's in four zero one k's. It's in but it's invested largely in the public equity markets and the public bond markets and, you know, to some extent in treasuries. Talk a little bit about just what you learned from looking at data over a hundred and fifty years and and why investors should just be thinking about real estate exposure. Then we're gonna start to hone in on within real estate, like, where you wanna play specifically and and and how you guys are attacking it.
Andres Sandate:But let's let's just start high level initially with with just making a case for real estate exposure.
Matt Sandretto:Absolutely. So I think it's it's shocking to a lot of people that the the data really hadn't been collected until mid mid twenty teens on this. If you look at the National Council, Real Estate Investment Fiduciaries, their data even only, you know, only goes back to the the seventies, and it's it's kinda limited to certain specific institutional strategies that were designed for insurance companies and and foundations and endowments that don't necessarily represent, you know, the entire asset class more generally. So paper was published, and it was it was entitled the rate of return on everything. And these academics were not they were not real estate practitioners.
Matt Sandretto:They were not trying to make real estate look good. They were trying to determine what's the very long term rate of return on these very large investable asset classes. And to them, they this, you know, equity, stocks, bonds, both corporate and government, and then real estate were basically their big categories, and they defined it by market size. So, you know, if you take the entire bond market, entire equity market, entire real estate market, those are your those are your biggest buckets of money. And I think one of the the misunderstandings that that arises when people are comparing these asset classes is a lot of people don't they don't really understand how investment in real estate makes money.
Matt Sandretto:They tend to see price appreciation of the asset as kind of the the net return, and that's missing a lot of the components of of return, which in real estate, you have the, you know, net cash flow, rental income, and ex exceeding expenses. But then you also have any principal payments on debt and the equity reversion that's occurring when from pay down of debt. So to actually model out the returns of that asset class of investment real estate where there's a tenant paying rent in the property, that's not an easy thing to do. So these these academics actually pulled, you know, rents out of newspapers from the eighteen hundreds and and tried to establish what the rental rates were in various properties in different markets around the world, and their analysis wasn't just limited in North America. So from the rents and then they they got property prices.
Matt Sandretto:Property prices are a lot easier to come by. Right? That data is not difficult. But it's the it's the rents and then figuring out the cap rates and then trying to estimate, okay, what would have been the, you know, the rough net return at at a certain LTV? And so they did they did all that analysis.
Matt Sandretto:And and lo and behold, real estate came out on top from a from a total return perspective. It beat equities on that hundred and fifty year period. And then I think another I think that was the biggest surprise out of the research was, okay. This beat stocks long term. Yep.
Matt Sandretto:But then the second thing was that the volatility was extremely low, and it was commensurate with government bonds, basically. So you're you know, that's a free lunch in investing. You're getting the return without the without the volatility. Now liquidity, that's that's that's the thing. You're not you're not liquid.
Matt Sandretto:And I think that's something that, sometimes real estate strategies and and, especially the institutional ones that are marketed to RIAs, I think I think sometimes they wanna act like things are more liquid than they than they are. The publicly traded REITs, obviously, liquid trade on the exchanges. Those are highly liquid, but but actual real estate actually owning the the portfolio is not a liquid thing. To position it for sale and get the highest value takes time and planning and so forth. So I just wanna put that in there so it's not I
Andres Sandate:don't know. It's not all, like, you
Matt Sandretto:It's not all perfect. Yeah.
Andres Sandate:Nothing's perfect. It's we can't look at it through rose colored glasses. I mean, I think we can but I think it is fair to say, and we will share we'll share the data that that that Matt just mentioned about long term historical returns and volatility. So I I thought it was was pretty fascinating when you you step back. So, yes, returns attractive volatility, lower relative on a relative basis.
Andres Sandate:But, yes, with real estate, a lot of people that wanna invest in real estate, particularly if they, you know, only really have experience residentially through residential real estate, maybe they have a a personal portfolio of of single family homes that they're renting out or a small apartment portfolio. And sometimes it expands from there, but you've got cost. Right? Expensive real I mean, real estate's expensive. It's it's a it's a chunkier asset class, particularly when you get into larger, you know, larger portfolios or larger assets.
Andres Sandate:Liquidity certainly, you know, can be a concern. Taxes taxes seem like they're always going up. Right? And real estate's no exception. Insurance for commercial real estate has gone up.
Andres Sandate:We we have, at our firm, just just look to try to find ways that we can help mitigate that for clients through a new partnership we have because insurance like, we just sort of assumed, okay. Insurance is this sleepy aspect of the of the operating expenses, and you realize, like, no. It's actually gone up materially in the last, you know, five to ten years. Maintenance costs. Right?
Andres Sandate:And then, obviously, you know, valuation. It's tricky. Right? These these are the the asset class is all around us, but like you said, there's all this information asymmetry, and it's not like you can click a couple buttons and get a price for your stock. And there's not a ready buyer at all times, you know, making a market in your real estate.
Andres Sandate:So there there are some inherent challenges. But I say all of that because I think it is a good intro as to why net lease real estate is one of the things that got us very attracted about Prairie Hill. Right? When we started looking at different ways that we could partner and give our clients and other RIAs access to real estate in a differentiated way with a distinctive manager that's doing some, you know, something that's, you know, not one of these mega Goliath evergreen asset gathering models, but is generating alpha and, you know, is is really a sharpshooter operator, we started really digging into Net Lease and starting to look for where we could get exposure, and and that's where our past intersected. But I'd really love for you to sort of transition and educate the listeners out there on net lease real estate.
Andres Sandate:And the difference between net lease real estate on the one end with real estate having all these food groups from single family, multifamily, you know, industrial real but explain net lease real estate because I think there's a lot of misconceptions and just outright lack of awareness and knowledge about it that I think you can impart a lot of help for us today.
Matt Sandretto:Absolutely. For us, from from the very beginning, net lease is why we picked, you know, industrial and retail as our as our focus asset classes because of because of the net lease arrangement. Can be elements in that lease can be present elsewhere, but, typically, it's industrial and retail properties where it is really standard in in those property types. And so an a net lease as opposed to a gross lease is one in which the tenant is responsible for paying rent, but the tenant is also responsible for reimbursing the landlord for property related expenses. And so maintenance costs, insurance costs, and, property taxes are are in the mix for that.
Matt Sandretto:So as you can imagine, you take those off the table, all of a sudden, the pro form a becomes a lot more consistent, and the income becomes a lot more reliable. Because if insurance goes up by 5%, that's that's on on the tenant. Now we we see our properties. You know, we're in partnership with our tenants, so we try and aggressively keep insurance costs down even though it is reimbursable. But it it provides an element of of certainty.
Andres Sandate:Mhmm.
Matt Sandretto:So that's true in retail. It's true in industrial. And these operating costs used to be a lot more predictable. And insurance is is you mentioned it. It's become a big problem in in multifamily and and certain geographies as well of just large increases that are actually starting to eat into income.
Matt Sandretto:And property taxes, we try our best to invest in jurisdictions that we think are fiscally responsible and well managed and, you know, property taxes drifting 2% a year or something. That that's fine, but you get areas you know, Iowa is is one right now where, you know, they're they're trying to address it, but it's you know, there's been some very high increases. And and there's other you know, that's just one jurisdiction, but you can name a ton of other ones across the country that have had large jumps. And and they're bad on both sides because a tenant needs predictable costs for for operating their business. You know, landlords need it too.
Matt Sandretto:But at least in a net lease, it's the the tenant is really taking that risk of operating in that location. And the the landlord with the net lease is really saying, like, hey. This is the return on capital that I need to achieve to to to buy this property, and that's what I'm comfortable with. And I'm actually not taking property tax risk and and insurance risk. Now you still are taking those risks.
Matt Sandretto:I wanna be clear that you still have those risks because if you lose the tenant and the tenant's not paying them, you're paying them. And if the economics are bad, it might affect new tenants wanting to to lease that property. So it's still something we look at, but each year, we're insulated from it in the in the net lease structure. And that's that is a game changer compared to, say, multifamily where you've got every every expenses on the landlord, you know, fixing roofs, fixing parking lots, toilets, all those things. And I think that's what gives, you know, investors a bad impression of real estate sometimes is that's what they think about.
Matt Sandretto:They think about those phone calls in the middle of the night, you know, Just the worst kind of real estate scenarios imaginable. Right. And net net lease is is very different. And, also, the property types are different too. A shopping center is it's pretty simple real estate for the most part.
Matt Sandretto:Industrial, same thing. You know, if it's manufacturing, it might have some complex installations in it. But but overall, it's not you know, you don't have a 100 hot water heaters or, you you know, you're not multiplying mechanical systems that you need to maintain. Those are gonna be on the tenant, and the tenant's gonna maintain those for their their business operations.
Andres Sandate:Yeah. One of the aspects of underwriting for us with a manager, I talked about it earlier in our conversation, was the team, the founding team in particular, who's making the investments. But another aspect is, right, I we'd like to at least apply an aspect of thematic investing to what we're doing when we're looking for alternatives and looking for areas of the private markets. Because of the fact that they're private markets, there's inefficiencies. And if we can take advantage of what we see are clear themes and then find the managers who can best express their view on those themes if they line up with us, then I think that's the basis for a very interesting conversation.
Andres Sandate:We still have to go through and conduct very thorough operating sponsor level due diligence and then get into their investment opportunity. But we if we look at themes and you you you made the comment earlier about just the uncertain macro environment, I don't wanna suggest that you guys are thematic, but there's clearly some things that aligned when we talked to you guys early on around industrial and retail. But I don't wanna put my words into your mouth. I want you to share what is it about industrial, what is it about retail when you just look at the themes of what's going on in the economy, what's going on in the world, what's going on with The US consumer that got you guys excited. Right?
Andres Sandate:Whether you take a thematic approach or you don't, there's clearly some themes when you talk about industrial and the supply chain and onshoring, and there's clearly some themes around retail that involve the consumer. Right? Because so much of our economy in The US is driven by the consumer. So maybe you could just give a comment on that because we can't invest in a vacuum, and these things matter.
Matt Sandretto:No. They they do. And and you have to try to stack the deck in your favor and investing and and have as many tailwinds as as you can. And retail and industrial both have structural factors going forward that we really like, and I'll I'll just mention a few of them. I think retail is the one where people are less familiar with some of these tailwinds, but let's just start with industrial.
Matt Sandretto:So you had a construction boom during COVID and lots of building of construct of industrial real estate, especially in Sunbelt markets, so Southeastern US, Texas, Florida, Southwest as well. So much construction and then also low interest rates. So low interest rates juiced development in a in a bubble like way. Yeah. And the result of this was very high vacancy rates in industrial and, you know, places like Phoenix, many of the markets in North Carolina, you know, very high vacancy rates and actually pressure on rents.
Matt Sandretto:Strong growth and strong demographic growth, but but actually the building got way ahead of it, and you have Yeah. Some some dislocation there. Alright. Let's you know, up up to today, different story now. Construction environment is extremely challenging.
Matt Sandretto:You know, borrowing in the sixes are now the sevens Yeah. To to take construction risk over a long timeline and have an uncertain exit cap rate of what you're gonna be able to sell us for or whether you're gonna lease it, constructions really fall off. So the first big theme for us in industrial now, investing in it now, is, falling construction. And so there's many markets in The US that actually have pretty tight fundamentals as far as vacancy rate and, you know, demand for for space, and they're not seeing much construction. So and then the the markets that got hot that overbuilt, they're definitely not seeing construction because there's too much risk to do development right now.
Andres Sandate:Yep.
Matt Sandretto:So so you've got space constrained. And then at the same time, this onshoring theme is it it's been going on for for quite some time now, but it's a it's a theme that takes a long time to fully play out. And that's more, you know, more businesses bringing supply chains onshore. We're seeing that with a number of the tenants that we're working with where, you know, something was built overseas. We're gonna we're gonna build it here, or we're gonna store more of it here.
Matt Sandretto:And just, you know, COVID showed the uncertainty, but then now you're seeing geopolitical risk, war, all those uncertainties. It just it it provides further impetus to to onshoring. So and the onshoring is happening at the same time. Construction is slowing in industrial. So so we like that.
Matt Sandretto:The other thing is we think, you know, this is not a unique view. You can hear it from Jamie Diamond and others. We we do believe in The US economy as being the, you know, sort of indisputable driver of of global growth, and The US is the place you wanna have exposure to on a very long term basis. There's certainly, you know, ups and downs on a short term basis. But if you had to say over the next decade, which economy are we gonna bet on, we're obviously wanna bet on The US.
Matt Sandretto:So so that's industrial. Retail. So so retail has exceptional fundamentals right now from a real estate perspective, extremely low vacancy rate nationally, so about 4% nationally, far lower than industrial, actually. And the the reason for that is the the last twenty years, twenty five years or so of, you know, the development of the the web and online commerce, and it it really caused developers to completely pause retail development. But at the same time, The US population is growing.
Matt Sandretto:The US economy has grown dramatically over the last twenty years. And lo and behold, you need grocery stores. You need fast food. You need all these these you need space for all this stuff. And turns out, you know, not enough of it's been built in a lot of these markets, and very little retail development has gone on for the last couple decades.
Matt Sandretto:And so we're at a point now where there's, you know, kind of a shortage of space, of class a space. Yep. And that's pushing rents higher, and it's you know, those fundamentals are great. Also, it does not get the attention that industrial gets. So industrial you know, everyone thinks that's a great idea.
Matt Sandretto:You know, if when we're out talking to wealth managers and investors, you know, they, you know, sometimes they pause. They said, retail, really? You know, you really think that's a good idea? And we say, yeah. It you know, it's it's a great idea.
Matt Sandretto:But, also, retail is not all created equal. So That's right. You know, we could be talking about an internal mall. Not all those are bad, by the way, but that's a very different proposition than we're talking about a ground lease to McDonald's. You know?
Matt Sandretto:These are very different risks. And, you know, I think we we shy away from the the power centers with really large anchor boxes, a lot of a lot of those, you know, 50 40,000, 50,000 square foot spaces just because the the the tenant roster of firms that want that size of a space has that has declined over the years. You know? Twenty years ago, you probably have a huge list of potential suitors if you were leasing something that size. Today, that list is a little smaller, so we're we're careful about that.
Matt Sandretto:But these shopping centers with smaller that are grocery anchored, know, we we love those. And and they're they're also value plays. They can be bought at very attractive prices. And a lot of times, your, you know, your risk profile is very low, especially if, you know, you got an investment grade type grocer that's doing well and growing sales and so forth. That ends up driving a lot of foot traffic, and those centers tend to do pretty well.
Matt Sandretto:So we we really look in retail, though, to tenancy that we think is resilient and can handle, you know, the economic gyrations that are just always gonna occur. So we look for necessity. We look for daily needs type type business.
Andres Sandate:Health, wellness, these are areas where, you know, people are gonna go to the eye clinic, the dentist, the the these are things childcare. Right? You're gonna see these things popping up next to your your grocery anchored. I mean, while there is a lot of pushback, it seems like on any kind of new multifamily in so many areas across the country and data centers have become the latest flash point. I think if somebody brings a well located clean new, you know, regional or national grocer to a local community, everybody on the city council and the zoning committee is like, hands up because you just know that's gonna bring all these, you know, other things that generally people want, which is convenience.
Andres Sandate:You know, they want they want access, maybe freeze up traffic in another part of town, etcetera. So the you know, so so retail is not created equal. And so for us, kinda coming back to it, we said if if we thematically believe that there's more onshoring, there's gonna be more ecommerce, and people are gonna want access to industrial to bring the supply chain more under their control. And also from a retail perspective, there's these long term tailwinds around the consumer. The country's getting bigger.
Andres Sandate:You can say what you will about housing being, you know, unaffordable, like homeownership. Like, the average age of the the single family home has gone to 40. That's not the point of this conversation. What it has done is that, you know, renting, right, unless you're downtown primo class a, like, it's just it's less expensive. That's why more people wanna rent.
Andres Sandate:That's freeing up more consumer spending, which is gonna, you know, be plowed back into into into retail and and and and other experiential retail, etcetera. So you guys focus in these areas exclusively, like net lease number one and number two, like industrial retail are the are the focus. Yep. What do people not typically own in their real estate portfolio? Because when when you talk about, like, where we are as far as, you know, the RIA, their client, they generally have been pitched this theme around multifamily for a I feel like for over a decade.
Andres Sandate:Like, own multifamily and and own it in the Sunbelt. Well, that trade largely has been off for the last, you know, five or six years. I feel like now there's more of an emphasis or a willingness to consider industrial and consider some of these other areas. But what do people that you talk to, like wealth advisors, etcetera, when it comes to real estate and net lease real estate, what don't they understand?
Matt Sandretto:Yeah. So I think
Andres Sandate:There's gotta be some misconceptions.
Matt Sandretto:Yeah. I think I think part of it is sometimes the allocation of the portfolio is at least the real estate piece of it is not that well thought out, or it isn't it hasn't been selected as, hey. In client portfolios, if a if a client has 2,000,000 investable, you know, we see this as equity allocation. This is, you know, fixed income, and then we we we wanna do this in alts. And in alts, you know, we want this bucket, credit, private equity, and we want real estate.
Matt Sandretto:And then for real estate, we're gonna do this. We don't we find that in some firms, and I think some of the best in class independent RIAs, they're doing that. And it's very well thought out, and they have good reasoning and justification for what each piece in that alts allocation is doing for the portfolio. And I would say if they can't answer that question, they need to go back and evaluate a little bit more. So in the real estate one, we just find that a lot of times it hasn't been that well thought out.
Andres Sandate:So Yeah.
Matt Sandretto:You know, for example, we were meeting with a a wealth management firm this week, actually. And we said great firm, by the way, independent. They've grown a lot. And, you know, we just said, hey. Just talk to us about some of the investments you guys have done in real estate.
Matt Sandretto:Like, what if how have you thought about that part of the portfolio or or not thought about it? What, you know, what do you think? And they they said, you know, which is pretty pretty common. Oh, we've we've made some joint venture investments in some local developers that were doing, you know, projects locally, multifamily developments. Turns out this wealth manager is in a great market of The United States growing.
Matt Sandretto:And and, you know, I joked to them. I said, you probably could throw darts at a board on that one, and you probably would've hit okay just because of what market you're in. But that wasn't you know, they certainly hadn't thought through all that ass all those aspects. And then I think they also sometimes the view on privates is, oh, well, we're not really managing those. We're managing the the liquid stuff, so we're not gonna we're not taking our asset management fee on it.
Matt Sandretto:And, you know, our view is that that's dead wrong because if you're the financial adviser, you're you're overseeing that entire portfolio, and you're deciding and you're helping you're helping advise the client on, hey. What allocations make sense? Why why, you know, 10% real estate might be good or not good? So to us, we think all the assets should sit on the same playing field, and it shouldn't be, oh, well, if we're investing in x, we take our fee. If we're investing in y, we don't take our fee.
Matt Sandretto:Because then
Andres Sandate:I would make the case that by investing in passive ETFs and charging a fee on that, I mean, I may be completely
Matt Sandretto:Preaching to the question.
Andres Sandate:Off a lot of RIAs out there. But if you're charging 80 basis points on an index fund and pick your provider, I mean, I would argue, like, are if you're especially if you're not reallocate or rebalancing and doing anything on that portfolio part of the portfolio versus on the private side saying, I I I don't I don't think I can justify, like, charging a fee because there's not oversight, and I'm not managing the assets. Like, man, please call me because I can talk to you about how much diligence and research and oversight and monitoring and phone calls we're doing with guys like you doing this on a regular basis. We're not getting the chief investment officer and the PM of some, you know, van you know, some giant ETF, some giant mutual we're not getting that person on the phone. They're gonna take our they're not ever gonna take our call.
Matt Sandretto:Ton of work. You know? You're doing a ton of diligence on these managers and meeting with them, and and so the the
Andres Sandate:So sometimes there's just more of a hands off approach.
Matt Sandretto:And Right. They will just set meeting realize because well, some the independents, I think they're they're very focused on alignment, and they're very focused on doing what's best for the client. And that's why we like the independent firm so much because that's that's in our DNA. Like, we we wanna build the best investment possible. And so I I think some of that was like, hey.
Matt Sandretto:We think we're doing what we're supposed to do. But, really, you know, by evaluating managers and and looking at different asset classes, like, they're they're absolutely earning their management fee. And just because it's a private investment versus a publicly traded doesn't shouldn't shouldn't change that. So I think I think some some of that is one of the reasons why real estate hasn't really been a focus of of wealth management in some cases, and they've kinda come into investments opportunistically from, you know, relationships locally and things like that. And I think that's where where some have missed out on
Andres Sandate:Yeah.
Matt Sandretto:Income drivers. And I think, you know, that's that's where we believe that we fit best in the portfolio is, you know, providing strong income on a quarterly basis, but not at the expense of long term returns. So not you know, you can get 6% of corporate bond today, which is awesome, but you're not getting more than 6%. You know, that that's all you're getting. You know, with us, we're paying you know, our target cash yield is 7%.
Matt Sandretto:So we're paying a 7% income, but our net total net return is in the teens. So we're you know, you're getting the long term return. You're also getting the income. And so that's where we you know, we wanna do we wanna make the portfolio better, so we wanna do the things, be able to do the things that people are not getting from their long term stock market exposure. And so Yeah.
Andres Sandate:Long term stock market is great. For us That's Yeah. We were very interested in trying to identify sponsors and and real like, I call it sharpshooters who are really going to go in deep on these assets that they're gonna buy. Right? And that's not to take anything I'm not taking anything away from the, you know, the firms that are running, you know, you know, $5,000,000,000 strategies, $10,000,000,000 strategies.
Andres Sandate:Really hard job. They have They have a lot of capital to deploy. Right?
Matt Sandretto:Yeah. Like, you guys are
Andres Sandate:going after the the fire. It's actually
Matt Sandretto:a lot easier. Yeah. Because, like, we're we're buying this industrial property. We're closing on it next week. And, like, we're like you said, we need to make great a couple great acquisitions each year.
Matt Sandretto:Now if this if you get this podcast too far and wide, there's, you know, more capital void that might change somewhat, but I don't think it will because we have no desire to try and I think if we had to deploy a billion dollars, that's really stressful. And I think you you end up making bad investments. You end up doing things just because they're at scale, not because they're great. And our preference is to buy these, you know, $1,020,000,000 dollar properties that have the inefficiencies and and low risk, and we feel like we can get the returns at low risk. And, you know, that's that's what we wanna do.
Matt Sandretto:So, yeah, nothing against the the the
Andres Sandate:Yeah. I mean, there's the
Matt Sandretto:different managers. And but I think a lot of investors, I I don't think they quite think through that risk because if you say
Andres Sandate:That's right.
Matt Sandretto:You know, a say a Sprouts grocery store in the middle of LA, you know, great great tenant, core market, probably one of the lowest risk things you could you could buy, you might only be able to spend 15,000,000 on that, 20,000,000, maybe 30. So here's a trophy type retail asset, and it can only it can only do fit you know, say, 15,000,000. You start thinking about when you have to deploy those sums. It's you're talking portfolios of properties. You're talking buying out other managers.
Matt Sandretto:You're buying other REITs. What you're you're actually investing in a lot of times what I call, like, a real estate company m and a strategy, which is not what a lot of people think they're investing in. And it was like, I'm buying real estate. Well, no. You're really giving them money, and then they're gonna try and buy other real estate platforms, which that has all sorts of different risks in it that, you know, we could spend time on.
Matt Sandretto:But
Andres Sandate:Yeah. There's definitely different ways to approach this. And I I think, again, one of the things we're trying to do with EnduranceX and our platform is just we're always always trying to lead with education first and foremost. Like, if people are gonna look to do more, like, they're gonna pick up the phone. They're gonna call your team.
Andres Sandate:They're gonna dig in. They're gonna do their due diligence as they should. We're just trying to bring to light the fact that there are a whole bunch of really, really talented folks out there that are deploying capital and delivering returns. There's no free lunch in the investment space. You know, anybody that comes on any type of show and says you can generate 15% returns and 10% yields and there's no like, that's, like, that's not possible.
Andres Sandate:So there is risk in everything and there is absolutely no guarantee of future performance based on prior results. What we can do is we can look at, you know, patterns. We can underwrite people. We can be very thorough. We can constantly try to stay on top of it.
Andres Sandate:And even then, you still have mother luck, like you said before. You still need a little bit of a tailwind sometimes. You still need that, you know, that that you know, sometimes it's that asymmetric information advantage where you know, right, we're getting in early because we have a relationship with the corporate parent, and we know that they're willing to do a long term lease before we even close on this asset. Right? And kinda insulate us is to some extent from the downside risk, which is inherent in any investment.
Andres Sandate:So we're not trying to say that that there is no risk. We're trying to say that we wanna educate, put the people in front of you that we think are doing a really thorough job, they're just doing it on a smaller platform today. We we have every confidence that these firms are gonna grow, and we're never suggesting to firms including you. And we I think we said this to you early on. We not that we don't want you to grow.
Andres Sandate:It's just that you you conveyed to us that there's a size at which you believe is your sweet spot.
Matt Sandretto:There's a
Andres Sandate:size at which you guys have an advantage. And if you if you get beyond that, you're gonna run into a whole bunch of different factors and competition, etcetera. So, you know, sometimes you need experience, and that comes with time, and that wisdom is is won through, you know, many years.
Matt Sandretto:And one other quick point I'd make on the how wealth managers sometimes invest in real estate is that we make the argument that the portfolio approach is inherently better, and a lot of real estate investments are pitched as single projects. They're Right. They're one property, and and that's it. And sometimes they're big ones. They're $150,000,000 development projects, but that's you're getting, you know, geographical risk, the jurisdiction risk.
Matt Sandretto:You're you're concentrating risk when you when you do those types of investments, and and and they're not actually appropriate for some of the clients given their, you know, investable net worth. So, you know, you can diversify a lot of those risks away, and I think that's that's where some of these projects, fall short for for at least the wealth management channel.
Andres Sandate:Yeah. I think you're right. Like, the concept of pitching a deal to a client may have some very attractive aspects to it from the adviser's perspective. I'm bringing my clients' deals. What you also are bringing them is potentially very asymmetrical risk that if if this deal goes bad, you don't have another 10 in the portfolio or five in the portfolio to to weather somewhat of the downturn.
Andres Sandate:Right? So, yeah, you're bringing in the deal.
Matt Sandretto:For the wealth manager too is, you know, not naming any names, but we we talked to this firm just a couple years ago. They were doing structuring all these real estate investments in single asset joint ventures. So, you know, they bought an industrial property with some of the clients. They bought, you know, a multifamily with with a different sponsor and a different set of clients. And one of the things I said to him is I said, what's the risk to your firm if, like, the industrial property ends up being a home run and it's a 20 IRR or something?
Matt Sandretto:And then the other investment, you know, defaults or capital is not returned or or or something goes wrong there. Think about think about the issues with something like that. Like, there's, you know, somebody won, somebody lost, and and it's just and I think it it all sounds good until until it doesn't. And whereas if you take all those properties and they're in a portfolio, you can you can weather some of those ups and downs in a much in a much better way.
Andres Sandate:Yeah. No question. It's amazing how quick an hour has gone. There's no way there's no way that we are gonna be able to do this in one show. So I told you this before.
Andres Sandate:We're gonna we're gonna definitely have to do another show because there's other areas that I wanna cover with you in show two, and I'll just kinda tease it out. I think we definitely need to cover some deals. Right? And I think we need to walk through some case studies. And I think that it would probably be best to do that where we can actually, you know, bring up on the screen and show people.
Andres Sandate:Right? Because these these are audio podcasts, but they're also videos. So, you know, people that wanna go out and watch them on YouTube, etcetera, will be able to see those deals. We will not be able to get into the specifics of the fund because this is not a a mutual fund. This is not a a registered fund, but we can talk about the strategy and we can I think we can go through some some examples?
Andres Sandate:We talked a little bit about the market, but I know that anytime we have somebody on that's investing capital, people wanna know what you think what you think is gonna happen.
Matt Sandretto:What you
Andres Sandate:think is out there. So we we definitely wanna cover that. A big part of our show is education, but we also wanna help people know how they can learn more, how they can invest. What does it look like? You guys have spent an incredible amount of time and thought, credit to your team and your cofounder because of the background, like, really making this investable for the RIA market, really making this a strategy that you've you've eliminated a lot of the friction that's associated with private markets and in alternative investments, and we definitely need to talk about that and and how, you know, you can actually access the strategy as an RIA, how you can, you know, do do this more easily if you're if you're an RIA of wealth adviser or the family office.
Andres Sandate:And then and then lastly, I think it would be really cool to hear you talk about, you know, those things, but then also talk about the special sauce. You know, what makes Prairie Hill, you know, I say the right what's your right to win? I always ask managers. You're getting paid to take risk. And if you had to say what you're getting paid to do, right, it's not as simple as just saying buy real estate and make money for investors.
Andres Sandate:Like, there's there's an aspect of manage a team, build a culture, recruit, retain, develop, incentivize, but also go out and, you know, crush it when it comes to real estate, which involves originating and sourcing and negotiating and closing and winning versus, you know, a lot of competition. So I think there's a lot of aspects of your right to win and how you guys are approaching that culture building, team building, organization building, but also just the investment building of Prairie Hill, which I think is a great way to to to sort of finish it off. So that will all be covered at least in show two. Potentially, we we go to show three. But before we wrap up, you know, it's it's it's been fascinating just to lay this foundation.
Andres Sandate:We're excited about the partnership and excited about bringing more RIAs to you guys, getting them on the phone with you. Like I said, we're all about trying to highlight that we think are just they're they're they're kinda like the rock stars of the small cap, mid cap, alt space as we kinda kinda say it. Like, we we take them on tour when we can and try to get them in front of people. And I say that tongue in cheek, but it's it's so important for people to know who's managing their capital. Not just the firm, not just the big brands, but also, right, when we go and look for the niche and specialist managers, like, who are the people?
Andres Sandate:What's their DNA? What what's Matt gonna do, you know, when we do have a a bump in rates. Right? Maybe two bumps in rates this year. We were thinking rates were coming down.
Andres Sandate:They're going up. Right? The Iran war continues to to go. Right? All this uncertainty, like so so we need to know his character.
Andres Sandate:We need to know how he operates under pressure. I'm glad that you flew jets for, you know, for for the Navy because that means you can handle pressure. You can make decisions. Clearly, things went wrong in in the cockpit, and we could talk about that. I wanna leave you with the last word.
Andres Sandate:And and, you know, we've spent an hour. We've covered a lot about Prairie Hill and about where you guys are, but I want you to sort of, you know, share you guys have been at this five years. I'm sure you feel very optimistic, and you're quite busy with everything that I know is going on behind the scenes that our audience may not know. But what's been invigorating and and exciting and fun about being an entrepreneur and and doing this? And and what are you most excited about, you know, to share with folks in show two and and maybe show three?
Matt Sandretto:Absolute and so I look forward to all those other other topics that we could discuss. And, you know, I I think the the real estate investing, we we try to be the best in the world at at that narrow focus of what we do, industrial retail, not lease. And it's exciting for us to fit into other people's businesses, these wealth management firms. And, you know, we see ourselves as you know, I guess, going back to the the military, that's where I really honed my leadership, you know, views and and how I wanted to do business. And and a a big value that that came out of that for me was just enabling the success of others.
Matt Sandretto:Because when you do that, you you you build you build a great team, but you also build relationships where even though that person maybe only spent, you know, two years working with you at your firm, they go on to other places, but they they still remember, you know, how you work together and how you help develop them in some cases. And that that leads to opportunities down the road. So I think that's how we view how we partner with with firms that are taking we see it as it's this huge amount of trust that it takes because and I think I've mentioned this when we first first met is that Yeah. One of the reasons private asset managers, I think, have have trouble is that there's been so many abuses. And as I'm still relatively young, 45.
Matt Sandretto:I I was always frustrated when I was younger. I felt that all these managers were just ruining the the industry through impropriety, bad decisions, and just and and it made it made, like, the LP manager relationship into this, like, hostile Yeah. You know, thing where it's like, okay. Hey. You're trying to screw me, and I'm trying to invest and make money and not get screwed.
Matt Sandretto:And and there's just all this distrust. And so so we hate that. Right? We we wanna we wanna we wanna be working together, and we want, you know, our partners to say, like, we love what Prairie Hills how they're helping us. And and we think, you know, it's it's two dimensions for how we help.
Matt Sandretto:It's it's what we can do for the portfolio, and that's a numbers thing. It's, you know, how much volatility are we introducing, how much return, tax advantages, Ten thirty one and seven twenty one exchange, which we haven't talked about that, but all those things. But then also, how do we you know, by having us in the portfolio mix, does that help that firm grow in in their client base? Like, are they attracting new clients because of the investment mix that they have? And that's something we always wanna help with.
Matt Sandretto:And so if we can do, events with firms, if we can, you know, be part of prospect events, dinners, presentations, on you know, we'll talk about what we know, which is real estate. We love doing that because when we see them grow and and flourish, you know, that's exciting for us because we're, you know, we're doing our piece, which our piece is a very narrow piece, which is just the real estate. But seeing how it all comes together for for clients and their future and financial planning and and so forth. That's that's the best part of this business from my perspective.
Andres Sandate:That's awesome. I mean, yeah, it speaks to exactly what we're endeavoring to to try to create by surrounding ourselves with the the the quality of people, the quality of managers, their cultures, their firms, in in the sense and then, you know, bridging them or introducing them to to other RIAs and allowing the two of you to really go and build something for the benefit of your clients, their clients that maybe wouldn't have existed otherwise. Right? And that that's why the things I'm so passionate about with with this show and these podcasts is is to allow that to start, is to allow that spark to, hey. I I'd like to, you know, visit with them when they're in Chicago, you know, or take take an afternoon and come up and spend some time in their offices.
Andres Sandate:Like, if that happens and I do know that that has happened from these conversations going back now four or five years, you know, but it does take time. It does you know, trust is not built, you know, in a meeting, one one phone call. But that's why we're gonna come back and do it a second time. So we're gonna release this first, you know, show on ATL Alts and Asset Back for folks and allow you all listening and watching to get to know Matt and Prairie Hill Holdings. Obviously, we'll share their information about how to get in touch with them if you, you know, wanna go right ahead and do that.
Andres Sandate:But but also, we'd encourage you to check us out for show two and and potentially show three. Matt, thank you so much for joining me today on on the two shows. It's been really fun. I know that we wanted to do this several months back, but just as busy as you and and I both are, I'm glad that we finally could get it in as we get ready to wrap up summer and get ready for for fall. Thank you for joining me today, and I wish you guys, you know, obviously, continued success and leave us with, you know, how people can learn more, how people can get in touch with you if if they wanna, you know, engage with with you and your team.
Matt Sandretto:Thank you, I've I've enjoyed the conversation. I I love talking investments, I can go on forever probably. But, no, we're we're happy to speak to anyone that's interested in how real estate might fit into portfolios. And so we got plenty of information on the web. We got some social media stuff.
Matt Sandretto:We're we're haven't been as active on the socials recently as we were for for a while, but we've got lots of materials on everything from the our ten thirty one service to the fund. Yeah. So please get in touch, and we're we're you mentioned people coming through Chicago, and I'd love to meet in person too. So if, Chicago is in your travel plans, you know, we're happy to host a meeting here at our office in Lake Forest or meet you downtown as well. So
Andres Sandate:Fantastic. Well, I wish you, a great weekend ahead. We will, we'll get this first episode out to folks. We always encourage you to, like I said, reach out to the folks that we have on the show directly, connect with them, but it will also put, you know, your contact information in the show notes and how they can get in touch with with with you in Prairie Hill and, you know, the best way for them to to further the dialogue and the conversation, and we'll we'll we'll get to planning episode two and potentially three. So thanks for joining me today, and I hope you have a great weekend ahead.
Matt Sandretto:Okay. Sounds great, Andres. We'll talk to you soon.
Andres Sandate:Thanks, man.
Matt Sandretto:Take care.
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